Order from a Major Online Bookstore
Ultimate Book Price Comparison Engine
Save Your Time And Money
| AnyBook4Less.com | Order from a Major Online Bookstore |
|
| Home | Store List | FAQ | Contact Us | | ||
| Ultimate Book Price Comparison Engine Save Your Time And Money |
||
 |
Title: Holy Scripture: The Ground and Pillar of Our Faith, Volume III: The Writings of the Church Fathers Affirming the Reformation Principle of Sola Scriptura. by William Webster, David T. King ISBN: 1-893531-05-8 Publisher: Christian Resources, Inc. Pub. Date: October, 2001 Format: Paperback List Price(USD): $20.00 |
Average Customer Rating: 3.6 (5 reviews)
Rating: 5
Summary: the title does what?
Comment: catholic4areason should note that the title of the series is based on a quote from the church Father, Irenaeus. So it would seem that he has not read either. To say the title contradicts Scripture is to say Irenaeus contradicts Scripture.
Phils criticisms are dealt with directly in the books and supported by a great deal of documentation. An example of where his review is misleading is when he claims Webster and King say that the early church contrast scripture and tradition. In fact, not only do Webster and King NOT do this, one of their points is that the modern Catholic church DOES. Tradition, as understood by the patristics, is completely circumscribed BY Scripture and that is one of the MAJOR POINTS. Therefore, the supposed 'contrast' or 'dual authority' of Scripture and Tradition is a result of modern Catholicisms redifintion of the early church's understanding of 'Tradition' (pradosis). Why Phil would seem to suggest otherwise could only be to keep naive Catholics from reading the criticism.
Rating: 1
Summary: Title contradicts scripture itself...
Comment: The title contradicts scripture itself ... "The Ground and Pillar of Our Faith" ... has the author never read the scripture with open eyes and did he not recognize that even in scripture, the pillar and foundation of all truth is the CHURCH (see 1 Tim 3:15). Any bible-believing Christian should see that...isn't that what believing the bible is all about - believing what it "actually" says. There's much better stuff out there to read if you're looking for the TRUTH. Try looking where Jesus promised to leave all truth...the CHURCH. And, where in scripture does it say that scripture alone is the basis of all TRUTH. This principal seems to be a tradition of men.
Rating: 2
Summary: Get the 38 Volumes from Eerdmans instead Volume 3
Comment: REVIEW CONTINUED...
Let's summarize the work of Catholic scholar and theologian Yves Congar -- since Webster and King have tried to use him to support their Protestant fundamentalist/evangelical assertions -- from Tradition and Traditions: An Historical and a Theological Essay (1967), pages 23ff
(A) The true Catholic Faith and true interpretation of the Scriptures is found only in the Church which is bound up with the succession of its ministers (apostolic succession, not of doctrine only -- as wrongly claimed by Webster/King -- but of its bishops, ministers, pastors succeeding the authority of the apostles);
(B) The "rule of faith" or "rule of truth" was not the whole of Tradition; it may be the principal part, but there are other things transmitted from the apostles by tradition: rules of discipline, conduct/behavior, on worship/liturgy, etc.
(C) The content of tradition consisted "materially" of the Scriptures, but "formally" of the Faith of the Catholic Church, its reading of the Scriptures in the Creed, etc; the mere text of Scripture alone was insufficient; heretics also quoted Scripture but they did not read that Scripture in the context of the Tradition or the orthodox Faith of the Catholic Church;
(D) The Catholic Church alone has received the apostolic deposit of truth, for in her the Holy Spirit of truth lives (John 14:16f; 16:13f); the Church alone is the sole inheritor of the true Christian teaching from God through Christ to the Apostles;
(E) This Tradition -- the Church's Tradition -- is itself oral; and if there were no NT Scriptures it would have been sufficient for the Church to follow "the order of tradition" received from the apostles; in the minds of the early Christians it made no difference if the transmission was purely oral since there was an assured connection to the apostles through the Churches founded by the apostles to guarantee authenticity;
(F) Scripture was everything for the Fathers, and Tradition was everything also;
(G) What was the nature of the Church of the Fathers? It was one universal visible Church ruled by a hierarchy of bishops, presbyters/priests, deacons, etc in succession from the apostles (apostolic succession, again not "succession of doctrine" only);
(H) The entire activity of the Fathers demonstrates that they united three terms that were separated and set in opposition by the controversies of the 16th century -- these three terms were Scripture, Tradition, and Church; it was always affirmed that Scripture is the rule and norm of faith only when conjoined to the Church and her Tradition;
(I) Hence, the Scriptures were never considered by the Fathers as formally "sufficient" or exclusive.
See also Congar in "Excursis A: The Sufficiency of Scripture According to the Fathers and Medieval Theologians" for his conclusions on "material sufficiency" in the Fathers.
Congar demonstrates and concludes (after much evidence and analysis) that the Church Fathers did not believe in Sola Scriptura in the "formal sufficiency" sense required by the Protestant Reformers. Webster/King accept this distinction and set out to prove "formal sufficiency" from many quotations of the Fathers. However, they fail to overthrow the consistent conclusions of Schaff, Kelly, Pelikan, and Congar above.
Joe Gallegos in his 160 pages on the Fathers (see Not By Scripture Alone, p. 389-554), following Congar's research, analysis and conclusions, has conceded the "material sufficiency" of Scripture in the Fathers, so "formal sufficiency" is where the debate needs to center. The vast majority of quotations brought forward by Webster/King on the authority, inspiration, inerrancy, power, beauty, etc of Holy Scripture in the Fathers ARE IRRELEVANT TO THE DEBATE. Even the perspicuity (clearness and clarity) of Scripture in the Fathers contradicts the assertions of Webster/King since the Fathers universally interpreted the text of Scripture in accordance with Catholic doctrine today (despite Webster's assertions on Matthew 16:18 which is not a problem -- note the Catechism of the Catholic Church on Matthew 16:18f, paragraphs 424, 442, 552, 586, 756, 881, etc).
Webster/King really could have saved us and them a lot of time by cutting out a great amount of irrelevant material from the three volumes, perhaps add more of a direct "biblical defense" (which is where ultimately their case must be established) of Sola Scriptura, and trimmed it down to one book of about 500 pages.
Volume 3 contains a lot of quotations from the Church Fathers, about 99% of which are irrelevant since no Church Father pitted the Tradition of the Catholic Church or the Dogmas of the Catholic Church AGAINST Scripture, which is what Webster/King would have you believe.
Vatican Council II affirms Sola Scriptura to the fullest extent according to their logic since: the Council Fathers teach the inspiration and authority of Scripture; the inerrancy of Scripture; quote from 2 Tim 3:16-17 the classical Protestant proof text; call Scripture the "Word of God"; say the Word of God for the Church is the "supreme rule of her faith"; that Scripture presents God's own Word in an unalterable form; they are the voice of the Holy Spirit bringing the words of the prophets and apostles to us; that ALL the preaching of the Church, and the ENTIRE Christian religion should be ruled by Scripture; the Word of God has force and power as the Church's support and vigor; the children of the Church get strength for their faith, food for the soul, and find a pure fount of spiritual life in Holy Scripture (see Vatican II Dei Verbum, 11, 21).
If you are an Evangelical or Catholic interested in this issue, you should get these volumes. Then take out the 38 volumes of the Fathers edited by Protestant scholars and see what Webster/King do not tell you. They are available online. And don't forget to purchase the 600 page Not By Scripture Alone: A Catholic Critique of the Protestant Doctrine of Sola Scriptura and compare especially the chapters by Sungenis, Blosser, and Gallegos where they have already answered much that is found in the Webster/King volumes.
Phil Porvaznik
 |
Title: The Shape of Sola Scriptura by Keith A. Mathison ISBN: 1885767749 Publisher: Canon Press Pub. Date: 18 April, 2001 List Price(USD): $17.00 |
 |
Title: The Matthew 16 Controversy: Peter and the Rock by William Webster ISBN: 1879737256 Publisher: Christian Resources, Inc. Pub. Date: June, 1996 List Price(USD): $15.00 |
 |
Title: Sola Scriptura: The Protestant Position on the Bible by Don Kistler ISBN: 1573580287 Publisher: Soli Deo Gloria Pubns Pub. Date: June, 2003 List Price(USD): $14.95 |
 |
Title: Far from Rome, Near to God: Testimonies of Fifty Converted Roman Catholic Priests by Richard Bennett, Martin Buckingham, Buckingham Bennett ISBN: 0851517331 Publisher: Banner of Truth Pub. Date: December, 1998 List Price(USD): $11.95 |
 |
Title: Church of Rome at the Bar of History by William David Webster ISBN: 0851517102 Publisher: Banner of Truth Pub. Date: November, 1997 List Price(USD): $14.99 |
Thank you for visiting www.AnyBook4Less.com and enjoy your savings!
Copyright� 2001-2021 Send your comments
