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Title: Complete Price Guide to Watches 2002: Over 10.000 Price Changes (Complete Price Guide to Watches, 22nd Ed) by Cooksey Shugart, Tom Engle, Richard E. Gilbert, Martha Shugart ISBN: 1574322915 Publisher: Collector Books Pub. Date: February, 1902 Format: Paperback Volumes: 1 List Price(USD): $29.95 |
Average Customer Rating: 3.61
Rating: 2
Summary: Most Popular Watch Price Guide - But Its Flaws Show Quickly
Comment:
The mere fact that this guide is now in its 20th year is evidence of its popularity. It is unquestionably the most successful guide of its kind. Much of that success lies in its clear if sometimes oversimplified listings that make it easy for rank beginners to find the majority of popular watches, and the sheer volume of entries. I would rate the pocket watch section over the wrist watch listing for detail (e.g., coverage for high-end watches like Patek, Rolex and others is superficial and buyers should rely on some other book), but both are adequate for the most popular material.
However, evidence is that most of the prices are not updated annually, and publishing deadlines make the few updates old when fresh off the press. Some prices simply remain untouched for years when auction and other sales clearly show significant changes (generally increases). I wonder how many of the scarcer and "by-the-book-mint" watches the authors would be willing to sell from their collections for the prices shown?
Some historical information, such as the production dates and serial numbers are questionable. The section on Aurora watches is clearly at odds with documented factory records despite fresh editing done to that information in the 2000 edition. And where South Bend individual grades are priced in detail, Auroras are lumped into general groups -- a sad oversight, since many of those grades are very scarce (multi-stars). Other rather common grades from popular makers are unexplainably missing amid a hit-and-miss grade list.
The price grading system is dramatically skewed to the unobtainable, making one minute flaw justification to slash the price below half of its near-mint state (which is mint minus a box, yet most watches likely never had factory boxes). Certainly mint watches deserve a premium, but the book's definition of mint is toward the absurd, and extra fine is nearly unobtainable. The result is that most seller's simply redefine the grades. It would be better if the author would make that adjustment, which would also put prices in line.
And the insistance that all watches still be in their original cases? That likelihood vanished sometime during the Great Depression, when even a gold-filled case could be swapped for silveriod to pay back a few dollars, never mind how many solid gold cases vanished into pawn shops. The presence of other screw marks in the back of a case for anything short of a perfect mint watch is closely akin to the flap over used postage stamps mounted in albums with hinges: much ado about nothing.
Finally, the foreign pocket watch section has only about 75 maker's price lists, and they are highly generalized. While something is better than nothing, perhaps this guide has become too long in the tooth, relying on minor annual tune-ups when a complete overhaul is due. But it sells, makes money, and there is no incentive to enter a new effort. Unfortunately, I cannot recommend anything better, except to get out and see the real market for yourself.
In the meantime, treat it as a general guide, but seldom if ever the final answer - one that even in it newest release is actually behind except for items that have not changed prices in years (not many of those). Even the generalized empty case prices show no adjustment for gold market or demand, and can sit unchaged from one edition to the next. That should be your first clue something is amiss.
Perhaps one problem here is the modern world of Internet auctions, which appear to be totally ignored as a basis for market sales histories. It would additionaly explain why this guide increasingly becomes outdated, even if it is published each year, having failed to see a whole new arena of buyers and sellers. Being the only one of its kind annual guide clearly accounts for most of its success. Perhaps a truly timely price book covering 90% of what is in the market simply is not possible . . . at least not quite yet. When it does appear, I will be first in line for a more accurate reference. Until then, don't make this is your only watch pricebook.
Rating: 4
Summary: Great general information - price guide suspect
Comment: For years I've been recommending this book as the best place for a beginner to start. The original text is 20 years old and was originally written for a pocket watch price guide. The information in the front part of the book is therefore written on pocket watches, however this general information ("how a watch works, the history of watchmaking, etc) is equally applicable to wrist watches. This portion of the text is rich in information that all collectors of vintage timepieces will find useful.
The price guide portion of the book can be divided into two main sections. Pocket watch evaluations are very detailed with manufacturer histories of most of the major American makers. The vast majority of American pocket watches can be found in this price guide.
The wrist watch section is an alphabetical listing of many examples collectible vintage wrist watches. The quality of the images in this section ranges from poor to acceptable. There are many factual errors concerning model names, case materials, etc. Pricing bears little resemblance to current market conditions.
All in all, a must for the vintage watch collector's library - as long as you recognize the limitations.
Don Baker @ finertimes.com
Rating: 3
Summary: Good but not great
Comment: I own the 1996 edition of this book which I purchased reduced after the new edition was released. I have been collecting watches since 1995 or thereabouts. This books strong points are its brief background information to some of the companies, various information about the production and design of watches and stuff every collector should know such as hallmarks used in pocket watch cases. All this is fine. Its a good place to get started and a handy book to carry around if one is unsure about a bench value for a timepiece. The problems start there. There are dozens upon dozens of watches that this book simply has no coverage for. In the wristwatch section it groups them into "misc swiss". This would be fine if the watches were all simply based on a standard movement (like the commonly used ETA movements) but they are not. Some of the more unusual stuff lies in these "misc swiss" catagories. Example, early on in the book the differences between an inline lever pallet fork and a right angle pallet fork are described. It is pointed out that the American makers adopted the inline design from the Swiss manufacturers. Yet, I own a swiss made wristwatch, simply branded Terramar (from Tenor Swiss Watch LTD) that has the right angle lever design as well as some other unusual design oddities. Interesting designs such as these certainly should be covered. As it is this watch as well as several others I have from manufacturers as well known as Elgin still remain missing from the pages. While the Terramar may not be a common watch the Elgin I have in mind should have been common enough to turn up in the numerous years this book has been published, it may simply be the author's choice to not include such models but it takes away any sense of completeness. Other oddities include the one Poljot model which is now listed under the wristwatch guide, I once looked into purchasing one of these, they were a limited edition of 500 this should qualify under their star rating of rarity yet it doesnt. Its a nice book to have it comes in handy but by no means is it complete, as long as one realizes that it should be fine.
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Title: Wristwatch Annual 2003: The Catalog of Producers, Models, and Specifications (Wristwatch Annual, 2003) by Peter Braun ISBN: 0789207621 Publisher: Abbeville Press, Inc. Pub. Date: November, 2002 List Price(USD): $29.95 |
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Title: Watches: A Collector's Guide (Miller's Collector's Guides) by Frankie Liebe, Frankie Leibe ISBN: 1840001453 Publisher: Mitchell Beazley Pub. Date: February, 1999 List Price(USD): $11.95 |
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Title: Collecting & Repairing Watches by Max Cutmore ISBN: 0715312146 Publisher: David & Charles Pub. Date: July, 2001 List Price(USD): $19.99 |
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Title: Watches International 2002 by Carolyn Childers ISBN: 0847824934 Publisher: Rizzoli Pub. Date: June, 2002 List Price(USD): $19.95 |
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Title: Collectible Wristwatches by Rene Pannier ISBN: 208010621X Publisher: Flammarion Pub. Date: March, 2002 List Price(USD): $14.95 |
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