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Title: Does God Exist?: The Debate Between Theists & Atheists by James Porter Moreland, Kai Nielsen, J.P. Moreland ISBN: 0-87975-823-6 Publisher: Prometheus Books Pub. Date: 01 April, 1993 Format: Paperback Volumes: 1 List Price(USD): $22.00 |
Average Customer Rating: 3.65 (20 reviews)
Rating: 3
Summary: Could have been better
Comment: This book is a debate between an atheist and a supernatural theist.
Nielsen, the atheist, says the word God is meaningless; as a result, believers don't have the foggiest notion what they are talking about when they use the word 'God' or say 'God loves humanity' or 'God is good' or 'God is a being beyond the realm of time and space.' And if believers don't know what 'God' refers to, what exactly are they having faith in? That's why Nielsen didn't employ other arguements used by atheists; if he can show that the word 'God' is meaningless from the start of the debate, why waste time on other atheistic arguements?
Moreland is a supernatural theist. That is, God is a being out there who is omni this and omni that. Moreland uses standard theistic argutments, bolstered with scientific lingo. Moreland's arguements were stronger than Nielsen's--yet that doesn't mean that Moreland's God exists.
It would be nice if a process theist joined the debate. Process theism offers a more plausible view of God. It solves problems that Moreland's God runs into; it solves the problem of evil, wipes away the confilct between religion and science, upholds the integrity of the world's religions, and incorporates two hundred years of biblical scholarship--all the while maintaining a high Christology. Process theism is by far the superior model of God.
The 'Does God Exist' debate was boring; those who read debates like this can be misled into thinking that the choice is between atheism and supernatural theism. Not true. If you are unsatisfied with atheism, and think Moreland's Christian theism is unconvincing and a bit Neanderthal, process theism is a fine alternative. Read up on this exciting view of God, for it is superior to anything offered in 'Does God Exist'. A nice place to start is C. Robert Mesle's 'Process Theism: A Basic Introduction' and David Ray Griffin's 'ReEnchantment without Supernaturalism'. Best, Lee.
Rating: 3
Summary: An interesting, but not spectacular, debate.
Comment: In "Does God Exist", J.P. Moreland and Kai Nielsen debate the same topic, but end up talking past eachother most of the time.
Unfortunately, each individual chapter within the book is much too short for anybody to establish much of a case for anything. This is probably the biggest flaw of the book- for it leads to some mediocre exchanges. Despite this limitation, however, some fairly important issues are discussed.
J.P. Moreland presents a fairly strong case for the existence of God by way of the Cosmological and Teleological Argument, and Nielsen barely offers a rebuttal in return. On the other hand, Nielsen offers the Incoherency Argument, in which God is alleged to be an incoherent concept. In my opinion, this is a bad argument, but Moreland doesn't really offer much of a rebutall either. It seems as though both Moreland and Nielsen are arguing in completely different ways and, as Craig notes, there is very little "clash" as a result.
The four extra participants, however, do pick up the slack a little bit. Flew and Parsons (atheist) actually offer some rebutall to Moreland's arguments, which Moreland gets to respond to later in the book (successfully, I think). Craig offers a very level-headed and fair analysis of the debate, while offering additional support for the Teleological argument. Willard's essay is nicely written, although it seems to be a bit off-topic, as he presents his own case for belief rather than analyzing what was already said by Moreland and Nielsen.
Overall, "Does God Exist" is a worthwhile, but not essential, read. There are much better debate books to be found.
Rating: 2
Summary: Same old Situation
Comment: This is a debate between an atheist and a theist. This isn't the best debate in the world, but it's good for the beginner.
First, Moreland used lots of arguements for God's existence. Teleological and cosmological. Others too. They were pretty standard arguements, although he did use scientific numbers and words. These numbers are misleading, but it made JP's arguements sound stronger than they really are.
Nielsen wasn't swayed. He said that the word God is meaningless, and so anything JP said about God wouldn't get off the ground. If we don't know what 'God' stands for, how can we argue for it? Nielsen really believed in the cognative meaninglessness of theism. He put all his eggs into one basket.
Moreland also made an appeal to religious experience. He said he had met an invisible person, who is God. Moreland said he also met another invisible person, Jesus.
Nielsen didn't buy it. All we can say, Nielsen says, is that a certain state of affiars went on inside JP's brain. There is no necessary connection between thinking one is experiencing God and there acutally being a God. So Moreland's arguement falls apart.
The contributors were helpful, sort of. Craig was the standard Craig and Williard wasn't much help. Nielsen even seemed angry at Williard. He said Willard wasn't familiar with his writings, and if he was--if he had taken the slightest bit of time to read Nielsen's books--Williard wouldn't have made so many errors in representing Nielsen's position.
This book was okay. Personally, I can't believe people talk about this stuff today. We know better. Nielsen is talking more sense than Moreland, but perhaps a more sophisticated theist could do a demolition job on Nielsen. I don't know, though. I just don't see how anybody can talk about God today, especially the way Moreland does.
Don't buy this book. Check it out at the library instead. For a better read, see the Craig-Armstrong debate.
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Title: The Twilight of Atheism: The Rise and Fall of Disbelief in the Modern World by ALISTER MCGRATH ISBN: 0385500610 Publisher: Doubleday Pub. Date: 15 June, 2004 List Price(USD): $23.95 |
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Title: Scaling the Secular City: A Defense of Christianity (Scaling the Secular City) by J.P. Moreland ISBN: 0801062225 Publisher: Baker Academic Pub. Date: 01 June, 1987 List Price(USD): $19.99 |
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Title: Philosophical Foundations for a Christian Worldview by J. P. Moreland, William Lane Craig ISBN: 0830826947 Publisher: InterVarsity Press Pub. Date: 01 April, 2003 List Price(USD): $35.00 |
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Title: Love Your God With All Your Mind: The Role of Reason in the Life of the Soul by James Porter Moreland, J. P. Moreland, J.P. Moreland, Dallas Willard ISBN: 1576830160 Publisher: Navpress Publishing Group Pub. Date: 01 July, 1997 List Price(USD): $14.00 |
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Title: Jesus Under Fire by Michael J. Wilkins, James Porter Moreland ISBN: 0310211395 Publisher: Zondervan Publishing Company Pub. Date: 17 July, 1996 List Price(USD): $14.99 |
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